(no subject)

[getoutofmylab]

A
[audio post]

Ah... So, in a competitive system where each individual begins with the same opportunities and outcome is influenced only by skill and motivation to succeed - but success is necessarily attained at the expense of others - what characteristics would disqualify an individual from competing altogether?

I ask out of curiosity, as the conditions of a certain ongoing contest seem to parallel those of the world at large. People tend to characterize those who fail to participate in society as lazy or degenerate, but in reality it is the collective that decides whether an individual may compete - and that decision generally has little to do with ability.

My hypothesis is that human beings are not actually comfortable with participating in such a system, but must be convinced and trained to do so. Rejecting those who, for whatever reason, do not fit the competitive model is part of that process.

B
[ action post, later, at the Gold Mill ]

Sherri didn't go much for dancing, but he did enjoy orchestras and jazz music. More than that, the jazz club was a good place to sit and think about recent events with just the right amount of distraction. In any case, the atmosphere seems perfect for slightly-melancholy contemplation and being mysterious while wearing a snazzy suit. If anyone approaches him they will find that he is quite open to company, though.

C
[ less mundane action post, even later, anywhere in the city ]

Someone might have taken that audio post as an invitation - or perhaps they just really wanted to offer some intellectual criticism in the form of punching. Hopefully they won't forget to keep their crit (re)constructive!

Comments

A, audio

[pega_pony_princess]

"...I have no idea what any of that means."

[getoutofmylab]

"Ah... essentially, people are very picky about who they beat up. I am wondering what it is that people who don't get beaten up have in common with each other."

[pega_pony_princess]

"Oh, that's easy! They aren't huge, stupid jerkfaces."

A

[high_on_daylight]

Natural Selection favors not the strongest, the tallest, or the fastest. No, it favors the most adaptable to change.

The problem, of course, comes when people create change.

Audio Post

[bigshoulder_lady]

"Are you talking about capitalism or some other ship? Shouldn't we be more concerned with the two vile people menacing the town rather than waxing philosophical?"

Since Samus was neck deep in other business, she had no time to offer much philosophical commentary back. But it was confusing people to be posting this stuff when there were villains menacing the town.

[getoutofmylab]

There is a pause as Sherri considers this.

"I do not quite follow your logic. You're saying that people who are not jerkfaces don't get beaten up?"

[getoutofmylab]

Ah... more accurately, natural selection favors those most suited to their environment. When groups of people are able to manipulate their own environment, they effectively select for which traits will become genetically successful.

Are you saying that when an individual is denied the chance to compete it is because they carry traits that the larger group would prefer to select against?

[high_on_daylight]

Perhaps.

It also follows that morality influences it. People choose traits as 'good' or 'bad', often for arbitrary reasons, and pressure against 'bad'.

[pega_pony_princess]

"Well, that's my criteria for beating someone up, at least. I don't pretend to understand what actual jerkfaces use."

[getoutofmylab]

"Ah... S-sorry. I didn't realize that someone might consider it offensive."

[getoutofmylab]

"Ah, good point. H-how can you be certain if someone is not a jerkface, though?"

[getoutofmylab]

What I find confusing is that, in many cases, people will claim to have selected one trait as 'bad' but then put pressure on its 'good' counterpart instead.

[pega_pony_princess]

"Well, if they aren't, like...hurting people all the time like a supervillain is, that's a pretty good sign!"

She's bad at the cerebral stuff, okay?

[bigshoulder_lady]

"It's not offensive, but we have bigger fish to fry. It's not really the place of heroes to decide politics, just make sure there's still a place to have politics matter in."

It's not that Samus didn't care so much as she preferred to be separate so much she liked excuses why she stayed out of it.

[getoutofmylab]

"Oh. You think I was... ah, preaching against capitalism?"

In reality, Sherri couldn't care less about how the city chose to govern itself. This wasn't even his planet, after all.

[high_on_daylight]

It isn't always the same people. Some hold to the understanding that "to live" is to "do evil", for the definition of 'bad' of the time.

[bigshoulder_lady]

"I have no idea if it was philosophical or political. You just kind of waxed vaguely."

[getoutofmylab]

"So... you are not sure what I was saying, but... you are very sure that I should not be saying it?"

[bigshoulder_lady]

"I do not know what your thought process leads to, no, but it doesn't seem to be related to the fact we have real problems happening in the town right now."

[getoutofmylab]

"I'm afraid you are incorrect," he says, seeming to drop the stutter for a moment, "but your opinion has been noted."

[bigshoulder_lady]

"Would be nice if you would stop being so vague for a moment and just be direct about what the heck you're talking about man. I mean, what the ship you flying there?"

[getoutofmylab]

"Ah... well, I was actually referring to Slade's contest. It does have some, ah, interesting parallels with capitalism, which I wished to draw attention to because I think it might shed light on his motives."

He was not actually sure whether that had been a request for clarification, but he suspected that it was as close to one as he was going to get. It seemed to him that they were having some communication problems that were not entirely on his end - but also that it would be easier on everyone if he acted as though they were.

"Apologies for any miscommunication, but, ah... English is not my first language."

A - Audio

[knows_your_name]

It's an interesting hypothesis, though I must make one point of contention. If we're basing this on the real world; whether in business, education, or super hero-ing, I don't believe that everyone begins with the same opportunities. It's impossible for everyone to begin at the same level! Skill and motivation are not the only deciding factors in success, not by a long shot...

And furthermore, I don't think that anyone truly stops participating in this "competition". Unless they die, of course. It's something we can't escape! Whether we achieve levels of greatness or fall behind, we are still a part of the system.

...But if we're literally talking about that contest going round between heroes and villains? That mess is uber creepy and I'm stayin' the junk out of it.

[Sorry for the gush, he's just been itching for some intellectual discourse. And seriously, whoever is running that contest is creep-central.]

[bigshoulder_lady]

"He is likely just trying to create conflict and trick less aware heroes. It is unlikely he will pay if anyone is used to taking contracts like that. Contracts paid for situations like that are just traps. English isn't my first language either. I grew up in Southern France, but my first real language was a bit more alien."

She had been requesting clarification for a while now.

"I was gifted with a bit of an omni-glot though from my... adoptive family."

She stopped talking for a while after that, seeming to have some trouble with this now.

Audio

[getoutofmylab]

In practice, I agree with you. Some people simply do not have much, if any, chance at succeeding in life. There is also no way to avoid competition, and success and failure are highly subjective. The system is imperfect and generates a lot of externalities, but addressing those issues is essentially what politics are for.

As I understand it, however, that is not the way the system is meant to function. As a rationalization of an organic process, it does have an ideal form. This contest seems to be a lot closer to that form, so I am interested in why there seems to be such a widespread negative view of it.

[ Yay, another nerd to nerd around with! ]

Audio

[knows_your_name]

[NERD FRIENDS HOORAY He still disagrees with this whole thing, though.]

Because this isn't an ideal system! A kill-or-be-killed mentality leads to nothing but destruction! What happens when there's only one person left? What happens when they die?

This competition, or contest, or whatever- we shouldn't be judging ourselves or others with the intent of an endgame winner. These systems should only act as a personal point of reference, for people to measure their own worth and strive to be better... And to encourage others to be better as well! Wouldn't it be preferable if everyone reached success together, even if their paces were different?

I don't know, it just... It feels wrong to encourage death and dominance.

[getoutofmylab]

Sherri muttered to himself: a low rumble that would likely not entirely be picked up by the mic, let alone recognized as speech. He didn't necessarily mean to be weird, but it was a much more natural expression of private skepticism than shaking his head.

"Ah, most sentient species are... opposed to entropy. Humanity, however,... seems to abhor it. Most individuals lack the cognitive capacity to truly understand the concept, but they respond to it emotionally with an intensity that I, ah... unfortunately cannot properly describe. From a scientific standpoint it... inspires awe."

He paused, apparently to collect his thoughts.

"The, ah, probability of a human seeking disorder as an end goal seems so small that, ah... to consider it would not be efficient."

If Samus was uncomfortable talking about her past or linguistics, Sherri did not particularly have a response for it. The number of Skrell who are aware that humans even have multiple languages numbers exactly one: himself, and even then it's not something he quite understands. Being an omni-glot, however, did not particularly increase her likelihood of being able to hear into the sub-sonic range, nor of being able to make syntactical sense of a multi-tonal series of notes, croaks, and clicks.

[bigshoulder_lady]

To be honest, she didn't care.

"Do you speak in anything other than faux-philosphical narration?" She took a moment before smiling. She decided to get snarky with him.

"Let me translate to speaking normal. Most people are opposed to chaos, humans even moreso than rest. That's not true in the least and even I have a just a modicum of understanding of basic human culture. As for the rest just seems like your fascinated with humanity. Regardless, I never said causing conflict was his end goal. Just that chaos is likely beneficial to the cause he has. Though he could always be an anarchist for all we know."

She had to admit, him seeming to treat humanity as a quaint tourist attraction was something that did irk her deeply. She had a lot of ire for this man. Whoever he was. Fascinated by humans like a quaint tourist attraction and he talked solely in purple prose.

[getoutofmylab]

He didn't care what she thought of his attitude towards humans. What was starting to bother him was her sheer arrogance - she had just waltzed into this conversation, somehow managing to act like she knew everything while simultaneously demanding that it be explained to her. It had been one thing when she was just doing it casually, but now she was actually being rude about it.

"Pardon my indiscretion, but am I unknowingly speaking to royalty?" he asked. "That no one has pointed out to you the fact that you seem to speak without putting any thought into it - others must think you above reproach."

Most people couldn't tell when he was being sarcastic, but it was a lot easier to get past that barrier when he didn't care about offending the other person.

"It seems that we are having some difficulty communicating. When you said 'chaos' I thought you meant... ah, the destruction of the entire concept of civilization? But it seems that you actually meant 'a distraction.'"

[bigshoulder_lady]

She just listened to the first part and just kind of stared blankly at the fact he was being sarcastic at her. Then the latter part there. "Yes. Since I know how to communicate in the language of humans, I can do so without thought and without confusing everyone around me with speech that sounds like I just found out what big words are."

[getoutofmylab]

"Ah... well, at least I've successfully learned them." He smirked slightly. "If I met another Skrell who misused language the way you do, I would assume they were mentally deficient."

[bigshoulder_lady]

"Words in human languages have multiple meanings and being able to derive their actual meaning from context is quite key. You seem incapable of doing even that most insignificant concept that human children have mastered, I imagine most humans you've met would consider you an idiot."

[terrorwhatflaps]

Hearing all of this come over his watch while he was trying to patrol the rooftops was starting to get a little tedious, so Darkwing stopped to perch on a fire escape and switched on his own audio, before commenting dryly:

"Congratulations, you both have big dictionaries. Sheeeeeeez. Put a collective cork in it! Some of us are trying to work, here."

[getoutofmylab]

"Indeed. Ah... Hunter, was it? If you'd like to waste any more of my time, I could give you my cell phone number."

[bigshoulder_lady]

"How about we just find out where that transmitter before get annoyed enough to break your watch."

B, hope I'm not too late?;;

[magistermentium]

["Mysterious while wearing a snazzy suit" appears to be a descriptor that doesn't only fit Sherri tonight, as he's approached by a dark-haired, tall, somewhat lanky but broad-shouldered man holding a black hooked cane, dressed in colors that truly make him look at home here. One of his eyes is covered by a patch, and curiously, his miniature top hat doesn't appear to sit on his head, but float slightly above it.]

You seem like you've got a lot on your mind!

[Bill is more aware of the certainty of that statement than Sherri probably realizes.]

[getoutofmylab]

Ah... so, you seem to be saying that the system is flawed in part because its more perfect forms are undesirable. That is more or less what I thought, but you seem to be approaching it from the angle that humanity is moving away from that kind of system rather than towards it.

[ For the record, he is so opposed to it that it has circled back around and ceased to be something he thinks about being opposed to. ]

[getoutofmylab]

"Threats? Is that how civilized people conduct themselves?"

[bigshoulder_lady]

"I generally am making sure civilization isn't attacked. That requires some... violent urges."

No such thing! <3

[getoutofmylab]

Ah... the weekend was somewhat eventful. One of those where you end up having to put off relaxing until Monday night.

[ He rests his chin on his clasped hands. Though he isn't smiling, per se, his body language does manage to convey friendliness and general interest. ]

You look vaguely familiar - have I seen you here before?

[knows_your_name]

[Simon's too emotionally-minded to look at it totally objectively.]

I- I mean, I guess so? I would hope so. If we're all naturally headed for something undesirable, then shouldn't we make an effort to change that?

[getoutofmylab]

"Make whatever excuses you must, I suppose."

[bigshoulder_lady]

"Blah blah."

[getoutofmylab]

That would make logical sense, but people are not always logical.

For instance... say you're being chased by a tiger that intends to eat you, and the only way to escape would be to jump down an abandoned well. The logical choice is to let yourself be eaten rather than starving to death, because then your demise will at least have served some purpose to someone.

Most people, however - even knowing this - would probably throw themselves down the well.

[knows_your_name]

Maybe, but I'd say it's because of optimism! One would rather believe that they can climb back out, than give up there and let themselves get eaten. Maybe then they can escape and serve even more purposes later!

It's... admittedly a little nonsensical, and usually doesn't work, but hope isn't a totally logical thing. I prefer it for all its flaws!

[getoutofmylab]

Indeed. I would most certainly also be one of those to jump into the well.

Returning to our discussion of competitive systems, however, do you think it's possible that most people are operating in the hope that the current system will work for them? Perhaps they view themselves as being somehow different from everyone who fails, or they feel that they have more to gain in this system than in whatever system society is heading towards.

[knows_your_name]

Oh yes, I think so. Everybody sees themselves as being indestructible. Even if that isn't the case, it's still not something we think could happen to us. And that's saying a lot, considering most of our career choices!

[The super biz is not the safest.]

[terrorwhatflaps]

Darkwing raised an eyebrow at his watch. This was worse than when Quackerjack and Megavolt woukd start bickering mid-battle. "......yeeeeeah. Okay. You crazy kids have fun. I'll be over here actually working."

thanks! and sorry for lateness again...

[magistermentium]

Haha, well if you're looking to relax you're in the right place!

[Bill takes a seat next to Sherri with an affable grin.]

Probably! I'm usually here when I've got the night off!

[If he's been here before when Bill also has, this is the first time he's taken real notice of him. Something which surprises the man in the eyepatch, considering what Sherri is hiding, he thinks it would've caught his attention sooner.]